Sugarloaf's first six pack

[cccski]

This thread is a wonderful discussion. I hope management follows it, although I'll bet whatever is going to happen has already been decided in a boardroom somewhere.

If I look critically at Sugarloaf lift infrastructure, what do I see as the biggest problem? That would be the Superquad lift lines on weekends and holidays. I have heard many a weekend visitor who has never been here before remark about what a great mountain it is, but that the Superquad lift line is awful. I, myself, cringe when I see the single's line all the way to DR.

The information people shared above regarding the spacing of Six Shooter chairs means that my idea of replacing Superquad with it makes no sense in terms of moving people. Therefore, I agree with the comments that a Superquad replacement will need to be a signature new lift. I'm going to bet it will be a fast, naked 6 pack. Anything to save a million or two.

That means that Six Shooter will most likely replace Timberline. I really do think Boyne wants year round summit access with a summit venue rehab. Reading between the lines, I think Crusher said as much to me when riding Bucksaw with him this year. As you know, however, Crusher is careful about what he says. How about this, though? I wondered aloud about a Dopplemayr Triline from base to summit. Talk about a signature lift. Crusher commented, remarkably, that "they" had looked at that, but the costs were too high. Oh well.

So, I am going to bet Six Shooter is going to originate a few steps from the Bucksaw unload and replace Timberline in a new alignment. After that, the summit venue will be rehabbed.

To answer the query above regarding top 3 desires for the hill, I would say Superquad replacement with a higher capacity lift, Timberline replacement with a lift starting at Bullwinkle's, and, finally, a Double Runner replacement as that lift is a disaster waiting to happen. My next two desires would be a Whiffletree replacement and, lastly, a King Pine high speed lift with lengthening and new alignment.

At my advanced age, I hope to God that I'm around long enough to see at least some of these things happen. Under Les Otten, I knew nothing was going to happen. With Boyne, especially with the new housing development and IKON revenue, I think we will see some very positive changes in terms of snowmaking and lift infrastructure over the next several years.

[heavysquad4]

If I look critically at Sugarloaf lift infrastructure, what do I see as the biggest problem? That would be the Superquad lift lines on weekends and holidays. I have heard many a weekend visitor who has never been here before remark about what a great mountain it is, but that the Superquad lift line is awful. I, myself, cringe when I see the single's line all the way to DR.

How were the lines at Reggae? I'd like a full winter with Bucksaw running to see if the Superquad is over subscribed.

[Ski_The_East]

This thread is a wonderful discussion. I hope management follows it, although I'll bet whatever is going to happen has already been decided in a boardroom somewhere.

If I look critically at Sugarloaf lift infrastructure, what do I see as the biggest problem? That would be the Superquad lift lines on weekends and holidays. I have heard many a weekend visitor who has never been here before remark about what a great mountain it is, but that the Superquad lift line is awful. I, myself, cringe when I see the single's line all the way to DR.

Its funny, while the SQ line definitely looks bad, I find that it is always faster moving and shorter than Skyline. Id 100% rather wait in line at SQ on a busy saturday than Skyline

[TheHangingJudge]

Its funny, while the SQ line definitely looks bad, I find that it is always faster moving and shorter than Skyline. Id 100% rather wait in line at SQ on a busy saturday than Skyline

+1

Lift lines loading from two sides "feel" slower.

A venue at the summit is a pipe dream IMHO. Its a waste for a lot of the season to spend real money. Wind, snow and grooming limitations make it seem out of touch. With the addition of the Bucksaw terrain, it seems like grooming resources are over stretch as it is.

[essslsclsact]

"It's funny, while the SQ line definitely looks bad, I find that it is always faster moving and shorter than Skyline. Id 100% rather wait in line at SQ on a busy saturday than Skyline"

Skyline queue management is imbalanced with one side usually having 3-4 times as many people in line. On busy days I always avoid it. Not sure they've tried but they should load each side based on the length of the backup. Generally this would mean about 3 from one side to 1 from the other.

Same at Wiffletree when very busy.

[gondicar]

"It's funny, while the SQ line definitely looks bad, I find that it is always faster moving and shorter than Skyline. Id 100% rather wait in line at SQ on a busy saturday than Skyline"

Skyline queue management is imbalanced with one side usually having 3-4 times as many people in line. On busy days I always avoid it. Not sure they've tried but they should load each side based on the length of the backup. Generally this would mean about 3 from one side to 1 from the other.

Same at Wiffletree when very busy.

Might make sense in theory but in practice I imagine that the liftie would be subjected to a fair amount of abuse if they let one side go 3 times before letting the other side go, especially from anyone who took the time to skate around to the shorter side.

[Alpiner]

Skyline queue management is imbalanced with one side usually having 3-4 times as many people in line. On busy days I always avoid it. Not sure they've tried but they should load each side based on the length of the backup. Generally this would mean about 3 from one side to 1 from the other.

This is simply beyond their capability.

I feel that Bucksaw has helped the line at Superquad.

I will bet anyone a steak dinner that the summit lodge is not their goal for a summer venue. Bullwinkle's will be the summer venue.

[goldenboy80]

I will bet anyone a steak dinner that the summit lodge is not their goal for a summer venue. Bullwinkle's will be the summer venue.

I agree with you. While I think the summit lodge *could* be a good summer venue it won't be. Not to say it won't open occasionally in summer once rebuilt. It's just too expensive to build the size and breadth of facility there that accommodates a true wedding / small conference venue. It's difficult and expensive to get supplies and people up there since it requires two lifts. The second stage could be quite a distance from the top of Bucksaw. A cat ride to the summit takes at least twice as long as the ride to Bullwinkle's. It might be different if there was a base-to-summit lift and $20M to build a state-of-the-art facility at the summit. However, my money is on an expansion and/or addition to Bullwinkle's to further increase revenue potential there for summer use. I see the summit rebuild as a pet project and warm-up hut restoration, which is also great and highly marketable, but not a high-volume year-round cash banger. Once reconstructed, I'll be glad if it will be possible to buy a hot chocolate up there and maybe a kids snowfields t-shirt at the summit. Even better, a bathroom up there where you have a beautiful picture window view of the valley below while doing your thing. Novelty not practicality.

[Ski It]

I recall hearing about “interest” in a base to summit access road. I’ve no clue on the costs associated with such a road, but assume it’s far less than a 20M lift. A base to summit access road would solve many of the transportation of goods, services and patrons in the summer, including during inclement summer weather. Although, it takes away from the experience of riding a gondola…

[ceo]

I recall hearing about “interest” in a base to summit access road.

I haven't heard that, but I do recall they were making noises at one point about a road up to Bullwinkle's. Not sure how you'd do a actual summit road (as opposed to the existing jeep trail, aka Binder) without switchbacking all over the upper mountain.

[cruiser]

I recall hearing about “interest” in a base to summit access road. I’ve no clue on the costs associated with such a road, but assume it’s far less than a 20M lift. A base to summit access road would solve many of the transportation of goods, services and patrons in the summer, including during inclement summer weather. Although, it takes away from the experience of riding a gondola…

They mentioned an auto road to the summit in one of the annual meetings. I remember it being 2013. I think this got dropped as it was just a sort of thought at that time.

John

[Alpiner]

Speaking of lifts, just stumbled across this cool video of the top 10 coolest lifts in the world (not in order)
https://youtu.be/POrMa6ysGu0?si=2zlGIxEodFwdLudM

[Glade Monkey]

Get ready for a the “new” Timberline Express
https://liftblog.com/2025-new-lifts/

[essslsclsact]

Great news!! Wonder what the line will be.

[Pow on the Mao]

i think it will stay as true as possible to existing line. will go down to chipper well past bullies. they will cut new trail to it from below old timberline load (off timberline trail at bridle chain merge). some might explore options for a lower lower pipe cleaner...

[ceo]

Get ready for a the “new” Timberline Express
https://liftblog.com/2025-new-lifts/

Note that it carefully says "likely to be built". Peter Landsman is presumably as well-informed as anyone on the outside, but take this with a grain of salt nonetheless.

[goldenboy80]

I wonder how much quicker this is going to run. Big Sky customers on the Liftblog website say the Six Shooter never used to run full-speed despite the 8,457 foot line-length. Big Sky claims on its website the ride time was 8.5 minutes (or the standard 1,000 feet per minute for a detachable). Maybe they used to run it at full-speed when it was first installed. Maybe with a mechanical restoration Sugarloaf will be able to run it a lot quicker. If Sugarloaf operates the "Timberline Express" at 750 feet/minute its still a 50% improvement over the old fixed-grip, but it falls short of its potential to transform the experience. Apparently a new D-Line is capable of running at 1,378 feet/minute, or twice the speed of the old generation of detachable chairlifts. Anyone know the typical speed at which the SuperQuad runs these days?

[essslsclsact]

I wonder how much quicker this is going to run. Big Sky customers on the Liftblog website say the Six Shooter never used to run full-speed despite the 8,457 foot line-length. Big Sky claims on its website the ride time was 8.5 minutes (or the standard 1,000 feet per minute for a detachable). Maybe they used to run it at full-speed when it was first installed. Maybe with a mechanical restoration Sugarloaf will be able to run it a lot quicker. If Sugarloaf operates the "Timberline Express" at 750 feet/minute its still a 50% improvement over the old fixed-grip, but it falls short of its potential to transform the experience. Apparently a new D-Line is capable of running at 1,378 feet/minute, or twice the speed of the old generation of detachable chairlifts. Anyone know the typical speed at which the SuperQuad runs these days?

SQ can run 1070. Long ago to save $$$$ it was run at a slower speed during the week, but I don't know current arrangement. Several years after it opened my son and i did 42 runs off SQ with just short Bullies breaks. We never found this possible during the week when they began saving $$$ by running it slower. Slower was still pretty fast compared to fixed grip chairs.

[goldenboy80]

That's pretty cool about the 42 run day. It must have been fun to unwind at the end of the day after doing that much vertical.

Also interesting to hear that SQ goes 1,070. I feel like it goes pretty fast. Hopefully the new Six will approach those speeds.

It makes sense to run slower during the week to save money. Going full-blast it must eat up a lot of electricity.

[essslsclsact]

That's pretty cool about the 42 run day. It must have been fun to unwind at the end of the day after doing that much vertical.

Also interesting to hear that SQ goes 1,070. I feel like it goes pretty fast. Hopefully the new Six will approach those speeds.

It makes sense to run slower during the week to save money. Going full-blast it must eat up a lot of electricity.

The 1070 info comes from Lift Blog which shows info on every lift at Sugarloaf including this no longer in service.

https://liftblog.com/sugarloaf-me/

[goldenboy80]

Thanks for that link - that's pretty interesting. Looks like the new CVA T-Bar is the third fastest lift on the mountain at 590 feet/minute. I love the old school T-bars that launch you at the start. Sawduster needs to start eating its Wheaties at 350 feet/minute, jk. I would've thought Skyline's line speed would be faster than 485 feet/minute. Probably conservative. That's not any faster than what they show for the old Spillway chairs.

[Glade Monkey]

Thanks for that link - that's pretty interesting. Looks like the new CVA T-Bar is the third fastest lift on the mountain at 590 feet/minute. I love the old school T-bars that launch you at the start. Sawduster needs to start eating its Wheaties at 350 feet/minute, jk. I would've thought Skyline's line speed would be faster than 485 feet/minute. Probably conservative. That's not any faster than what they show for the old Spillway chairs.

Here's another listing with some lift details https://www.newenglandskihistory.com/Maine/sugarloaf.php
I'd take those lift speeds with a grain of salt. Probably the fastest rated speed when installed. Both Double-Runners are shown as 500 fpm' but just like when choosing a checkout line, I always seem to get on the one which is running slower.

[skiloaf]

SQ has not run 1,000 for years even on busy days. Whiffletree even slower. You can calculate the speed by taking the distance divided by the ride time. If you’re not riding the SQ right now you can look at any number of YouTube videos.

Six shooter had this weird turn in the middle as I understand that was due to property lines. Without that and refurb no reason it couldn’t run 1,000 fpm.

It is my understanding bucksaw express runs at 1000 as does the Ranglee express.

[Alpiner]

I would've thought Skyline's line speed would be faster than 485 feet/minute. Probably conservative. That's not any faster than what they show for the old Spillway chairs.

I believe it. Carpet loads are a farce. When you're on Skyline, look through the trees at longside double runner. It's going just about as fast.

i think it will stay as true as possible to existing line. will go down to chipper well past bullies. they will cut new trail to it from below old timberline load (off timberline trail at bridle chain merge). some might explore options for a lower lower pipe cleaner...

This.

[Andrew B.]

I would've thought Skyline's line speed would be faster than 485 feet/minute. Probably conservative. That's not any faster than what they show for the old Spillway chairs.

I believe it. Carpet loads are a farce. When you're on Skyline, look through the trees at longside double runner. It's going just about as fast.

i think it will stay as true as possible to existing line. will go down to chipper well past bullies. they will cut new trail to it from below old timberline load (off timberline trail at bridle chain merge). some might explore options for a lower lower pipe cleaner...

This.

I think a 4 seater with out a carpet loader would have to be run at a slower line speed than double runner? I think the carpet loader allows it to run as fast as a double.

Some one more knowledgeable on lifts could confirm.